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indar
Posts: 2992
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:00 am

Re: Safari

Post by indar » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:45 pm

As I am certain you intended, I had to do a quick reorientation from birds to machinery. The contrast between the elegant bird and very inelegant machinery is striking. Creates a sense of impending doom.

Matty11
Posts: 1759
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:58 pm

Re: Safari

Post by Matty11 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:51 pm

Archaic_Torso wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:11 pm
Lowering from the sky, the great cranes-
teetering necks that could feed clouds.
Groaning mammoths boring craters that could
bathe crocodiles. Machinery making
mounds of earth. The Common Dump Truck,
broad back carrying progeny of pulp
and muck. A lone bulldozer, idle
under shade of fir tree canopy.
Lost to time.

The 'jungle' I pictured from the poem was all machinery. The title led me to expect animals from Africa, but the parallels you use are more wide ranging - mammoth (prehistoric) and the play on truck made me think of ducks in general. The most successful image was the idle bulldozer - perhaps a thought to use that technique throughout the poem - mention no animals, bu imply through 'behaviour'.

cheers

Phil

Tim J Brennan

Re: Safari

Post by Tim J Brennan » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:37 am

Two things:

1) I'm having trouble processing the title. When I think of a safari, I see rich people / trophy head hunters. You seem to be focusing on the animalistic atmosphere of a dig, and that's fine, but the title isn't helping me visualize anything remotely connected to a safari (a journey, a hunt).

2) whenever someone feels the need to "explain" a poem to a reader, methinks it needs some thought.

Some good images in the poem. I think it lacks direction. A purpose.

Tim J Brennan

Re: Safari

Post by Tim J Brennan » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:09 pm

Archaic_Torso wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:14 pm
Tim J Brennan wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:37 am
Two things:

1) I'm having trouble processing the title. When I think of a safari, I see rich people / trophy head hunters. You seem to be focusing on the animalistic atmosphere of a dig, and that's fine, but the title isn't helping me visualize anything remotely connected to a safari (a journey, a hunt).

2) whenever someone feels the need to "explain" a poem to a reader, methinks it needs some thought.

Some good images in the poem. I think it lacks direction. A purpose.
Thanks for reading. Now let's unpack this:

1) Is it fair to suggest that a poem doesn't work because it didn't have the focus that the reader decided they wanted it to have before they read it (and who judges poems by their titles anyway? Surely that's at least as bad as judging books by their covers!) 'Remotely connected to a safari' - how about the animals that I am obviously alluding to through personification?

2) I feel this is petty and unfair. We don't publish poems here as finished products. The opposite is true, so with that in mind explaining my thought processes when posting revisions makes perfect sense to me, at the very least in order to aid constructive criticism from readers.

You put your poem up for a critique. I critiqued it. I stand by what I see and what I wrote. If you think it's petty and unfair...too bad, so sad.

A title sets the table for any poem and can be either a detriment or an asset. I think it would be a wise investment in the future of this poem if you considered something else.

I understand perfectly that your poem is not a finished product...hence the critique.

Grow up.

Dave
Posts: 2071
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:07 am

Re: Safari

Post by Dave » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:46 pm

Two things for me. The comparison machines and animals is laboured. Both writer and reader have to work to hard go make the connections. Secondly dump the ing forms for simple to gain dynamic. Plusvthe dash end of line 1 slows it all town.

Tim J Brennan

Re: Safari

Post by Tim J Brennan » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:24 am

I have no clue where you're getting words like "crime" and "delegitimize"...

When you win the Foyle Prize (whatever that is), I'll buy the book.

My second appeal: Grow up.

Tim J Brennan

Re: Safari

Post by Tim J Brennan » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:28 am

Archaic_Torso wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:01 am
Tim J Brennan wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:24 am
I have no clue where you're getting words like "crime" and "delegitimize"...

When you win the Foyle Prize (whatever that is), I'll buy the book.

My second appeal: Grow up.
1) Then look them up in a dictionary, or even better: re-read what you posted in order to understand where I'm coming from. The fact that you keep evading this point suggests to me that you regret ever having made the comment.

2) I see petty comments are your forte. Also misses the point. ...Also I meant to say the Forward Prize.

Thanks again.

I surrender. Writers who do not understand the definition of a word like petty aren't worth my time. I won't be critiquing your stuff again.

Hopefully you'll find other writers here more to your liking.

indar
Posts: 2992
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:00 am

Re: Safari

Post by indar » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:20 pm

Hi ASgain,

I still like your original version. I wrote a long reason why and apparently forgot to click on "submit". That's not the first time I've done that and it makes me so mad I can't bring myself to write it all again. Just accept my assertion that it was stunningly insightful :D

I will say that I don't like the naming of the machinery---or another way to put it is I prefer the ambiguity extended for as long as possible. 

I wish there was a way to copy and paste two different posts (original and rewrite) together for comparison but I think you are right about leaving it alone for a while then compare your different versions.

User avatar
Colm Roe
Posts: 2862
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:45 am

Re: Safari

Post by Colm Roe » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:05 pm

Archaic_Torso wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:11 pm
Lowering from the sky, the great cranes-
teetering necks that could feed clouds.
Groaning mammoths boring craters that could
bathe crocodiles. Machinery making
mounds of earth. The Common Dump Truck,
broad back carrying progeny of pulp
and muck.
A lone bulldozer, idle
under shade of fir tree canopy.
Lost to time.

I like this, and love the last three lines (syntax aside). 
The lines in red need to be looked at IMO. 
As for explanations in poetry! This is an issue that'll never go away. Over the years I've been told several times if the explanation is longer than the poem then it's failed. And often the poets who gave the advice were very opaque writers. 
My opinion now is this...if you intend to convey a particular message (in a finished poem), something unambiguous, leaving nothing to the reader's imagination, and you fail...then you've failed. But if you post a poem (unfinished) looking for comments and advice you're entitled to spend as much time as you like explaining your intent.   

Dave
Posts: 2071
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:07 am

Re: Safari

Post by Dave » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:59 pm

Very good and fair comments Colm

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