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Sapper

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Matty11
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Sapper

Post by Matty11 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:55 am

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Last edited by Matty11 on Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Tracy Mitchell
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Re: The story goes

Post by Tracy Mitchell » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:36 am

This poem seemed so straightforward the first 4-6 readings, but there is something layered deeper which is beyond my initial reach.  I wonder if this is a story of Charlie Cochrane, or other authors of The Pride of Poppies.  I wonder if the reference is to the Secret Garden.  If yes to both, then the poem makes sense on a new level, and seems to be every bit as straightforward as originally read, but with new understanding.

As usual, the poem contains all of the fine craftsmanship of cadence and diction I have come to look forward to in a Phil poem.

Thanks for posting.

Cheers.

T

Matty11
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Re: The story goes

Post by Matty11 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:43 pm

Thanks Tracy. I wasn't aware of the cultural/literary context, but I was threading to WW1. I wanted to write a positive take on gardening, but it went in the other direction. So it goes...

cheers

Phil

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Tracy Mitchell
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Re: Sapper

Post by Tracy Mitchell » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:09 pm

You have something very resonant here, Phil. 

I wish I could be more specific.  Indar has a better sense of these things, and I suspect that Tim Brennan does as well.

T
 

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Gyppo
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Re: Sapper

Post by Gyppo » Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:43 pm

Sapper
1. (Military) a soldier who digs trenches
2. (Military) (in the British Army) a private of the Royal Engineers.

=====

Ah, the sounds of war, which can evoke such terrors , or sometime just a quiet 'unnerving' in old soldiers.  My maternal Grandad survived 'The Trenches' in WW1 and even years later certain sounds, no matter how innocuous to us, would bring back memories he'd rather not have.  He rarely spoke about it, but to him it was always 'The Trenches', not 'the war' in general, but his very own personal slice of hell.

Remember the singing or whistling kettle?  That shrill scream would make the poor old fellow sit wide-eyed and terribly still in his chair in the living room until Gran took it off the gas ring.  Even though he knew what it was the gut-level response reminded him of a particular type of incoming shell.

Gran bought a kettle which rattled instead.  Apparently that sounded like the slow fire of a German heavy machine gun, but it didn't have the same ability to invoke terror.  Unpleasant, but not the key to the suddenly overwhelming PTSD response.

Probably the difference between the adrenaline charge of advancing into enemy fire and the sheer helplessness of having to lie still under a bombardment and knowing survival was down to fate, when all you could do was dig deeper.

Gran herself, a supremely practical old lady who believed in 'keeping busy', was sometimes still and white-faced when she heard anything which reminded her of the WW2 bombing of civilians.

When your body reacts before you have a chance to rationalise it all you have left is to work through it.

The 'thousand yard stare' is a convenient modern short-hand description,  but once you've seen it in real-life you'll never forget it.

For an old 'sapper' digging would indeed be a virtually innate response to the 'mind hum'. 

Gyppo
Last edited by Gyppo on Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I've been writing ever since I realised I could.  Storytelling since I started talking.  Poetry however comes and goes  ;-)

indar
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Re: Sapper

Post by indar » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:30 pm

Hi Phil
To my American ear the words "lad" and "lane" sound as if they are from a classic Brit movie dealing with WW2. Is that your intent or is that language still in common use. Knowing your work I am guessing the feel of this kind of "browntone" imagery is having the effect you intended.

The effect the sound of the can has on the subject lets us in on something unheard of at the time: PTSD. I totally believe digging in dirt, planting and growing something beautiful can evict the ghosts. 

I agree with Tracy that this is stated with such economy it takes a couple of reads to get it. I appreciate the delayed impact.

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Gyppo
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Re: Sapper

Post by Gyppo » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:31 am

'To my American ear the words "lad" and "lane" sound as if they are from a classic Brit movie dealing with WW2. Is that your intent or is that language still in common use.'

My generation still use lad, lane, lass without any sense of using it for deliberate effect.  I suspect having a fairly rural childhood sets things deeper in your vocabulary, because things change more slowly 'out in the sticks' and the roots burrow deep before life's experiences add new words on top.  If Phil did deliberately use them for effect it certainly didn't feel forced in any way ;-)

'The effect the sound of the can has on the subject lets us in on something unheard of at the time: PTSD.'

It was known by the very descriptive term Shell Shock.  Some doctors understood what was happening, the concept of a mental overload.  Others thought it indicated LMF (lack of moral fibre) and could be overcome by sheer bloody willpower.

Nearly every village had a couple of usually benign but baffled looking older men with far away eyes who led a somewhat zombie-like existence.  Amongst us but never truly with us.
   
'I totally believe digging in dirt, planting and growing something beautiful can evict the ghosts.'

Not sure they're ever truly evicted, but both wartime generations understood the value of 'keeping busy' afterwards.  This usually meant some form of physical activity.  The concept of 'counselling' or 'talking it out' didn't come naturally to them.

Gyppo

 
I've been writing ever since I realised I could.  Storytelling since I started talking.  Poetry however comes and goes  ;-)

indar
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Re: Sapper

Post by indar » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:55 am

My grandmother's brother was said to suffer shell shock upon his return from WW1. I have found the announcement of a court hearing to establish "lunacy"in the records in a search of our family history. He was institutionalized. My grandmother said he sat and stared or cried uncontrollably. Once committed to the state hospital he hung himself. Grandma said he was too gentle to fight a war.

BTW I meant to ask if poppies hold the same significance there. I remember people wore paper poppies on veterans day when I was young. I don't think I've seen them lately.

Dave
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Re: Sapper

Post by Dave » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:01 am

An idle lad kicking a can
along the lane that afternoon
unnerved him. When in doubt,
garden,
she'd said. And so he did.

Dug up a field, a pride of poppies.
Spade work - he had the knack for it.
The joy of labour sweated his ghosts
until the mind hum bothered him not.

I enjoyed the economy of the poem and its gentleness. I liked the fact that it told its story plainly and allowed the history to 'breathe' through it without being made too obvious. Sapper and poppies that is all it needed.

I would consider dropping 'idle' as it distracts a little - is it used factually as in ahving nothing to do? Or, is it meant as a counterpoint to the  industriousness of the N?
Secondly, why 'that afternoon' - would the line lose anything without the word 'that'. It would make the experience specific and universal without it.

Thirdly, I suppose he dug up the field  and that the field contained the poppies. As is sounds like the field= a pride of poppies. A very minor point, granted.

'bothered him not' is weirdly archaic. I can't quite figure why you chose to put it like that.

To answer your question Indar, poppies have become a bit of an obcession with the British and on November 11 it almost seems like treason not to wear one. White poppies being reurected for those who deemed not sufficiently respectful.

Personally, I am so glad the 100 years anniversary of WW1 is over and that perhaps we can lay the first world war and the second world war to rest. There is much to remember and respect and many we should feel grateful too, and of course these individual stories are deeply meaningful for those who experienced them and their aftermath, but Britain's need to re-visit old wars to maintain a mythical present seems to me to be a self-grandisement that has outlived its usefulness (witness the mindless use of war myth in the current Brexit debate, whether 'the Blitz spirit' or the 'little ships' of Dunkirk or the poppies. Living in Germany can be quite painful sometimes when young Germans tell me their stories of being asked ignorant questions about the wars, such as "Is Hitler still alive?'' 

My father and mother fought in WW2 and my my mother lost her favourite brother in WW1. They all carried scars from the wars but what they retained most of all was resentment of how the government fed the myth of the glory but left the sufferers of PTSD largely to fend for themselves.

Sorry about the sidetrack.

As I say a good take on an old theme.

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Tracy Mitchell
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Re: Sapper

Post by Tracy Mitchell » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:17 am

I appreciate the discussion -- I have learned so much.  As to the poem, the title change makes a huge difference for me.  Thanks.

T

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