The Gospel according to COVID

[Tim J Brennan]

I see Mark's comments were expunged or maybe he himself wiped them. Too bad. 

[Mark]

They've been moved elsewhere for further discussion in private.

[Tim J Brennan]

Ahhh, semi-expunged. If onIy we could semi-expunge COVID. Maybe when it becomes a big enough deal.  

I also went the private discussion avenue. Also of note, when I post, or when you posted, my thread does not move toward the top. Am assuming it will drift down to second page after a time. All tidy & neat. After awhile.  

Take care.  

[Tom]

I live in an area in which the large majority of folks are very conservative. As the infection rate has now passed the 10% mark, most people are masking up for grocery runs, etc. But there is a predominant feeling that the virus was man-made in China, that it's lethalness [lethality?] is intentionally being overplayed, and the numbers are being inflated. If you are not plugged into a news source, or into the wrong one, then your info and perspective are skewed. Both sides suffer greatly from confirmation bias. And I don't doubt the Russian Troll farms are fanning flames of these divisions.

I think these are valid areas for discourse. We should be able to discuss them. I recall some years ago posting a poem at MWC concerning a cancer death of a second grade classmate, and what that meant to us surviving second graders. Some of you will remember Sparky Dashforth, who commented that the poem was over the top, that it is too each to melodramatize such a narrative. I think he was right. The point is, that was a fair discussion point for him to raise. I think this is too. Tim, you have lost people close to you to COVID. I have too and share your grief, and hatred for the disease. Colm, you have seen death from other sources and pose the question whether and why a COVID death must be considered categorically different than deaths from other causes.

Be clear-- we are expected to have these hard discussions without going down the rabbit holes of who is and isn't a shitty writer, shitty critiquer or shitty person. You post a poem, you hope someone comments, and when someone does, you say thank you. Further discussion is optional, but focused on the poem. When commenting on a poem, be respectful and direct your comments to the poem, not the author or other posters, unless it is clearly benign chit-chat.

C'mon -- you guys know this stuff.

T

[Tim J Brennan]

Your first paragraph leads me to say the same thing I said to Colm. Think "outside" your home area. The content of my poem was targeted as something not possibly true b/c in his area it was no big deal. I haven't gone anywhere or done much of anything (outside golf, yes, but now it's winter) since last March. No restaurants, no travel, etc. We have been wearing masks since last summer. My poem deals with the big picture and was thrown aside b/c of it. 

Your second paragraph keeps you in your world. I have no clue what MWC is. Sorry, this paragraph means nothing to me. I do not believe my poem is "over the top"....nope. I do believe it was not taken seriously as something valid. 

Third paragraph: I would love a hard discussion. About the poem. In a respectful manner. About the poem. Without an editorial about the poster's life and how this poem couldn't possible affect the poster's life b/c they are not affected by the topic or content in any way. They'd rather look at other deaths not associated with what's in the poem. 

As of now, I don't have to worry about any of this b/c the poster in question has pretty much said he will not post on my poems any more. Of course, if he would say something else along the lines of a respectful critique, who knows what might happen. 

Because C'mon....we all know this stuff. All of us. It's about the poem. Not Stalin, not cancer, not if COVID is as bad as everyone says, not if the virus was man-made....not none of these things. It's about, as of today, over 400,000 COVID deaths that have occurred in less than one year.  Go read the poem again. Then read the comments that followed that weren't about the poem. Then tell me I don't have a right to be upset.

I stand by my comments. You can take this thread down if you want or leave it up, move it to discussion and have a mature conversation about how things need to change or it isn't going to get any better. Up to you. And him. And them. And me. And us.

I used to recommend this place. I don't anymore. It's not an "open" forum.  
 

[Dave]

Hey Tim
Yes we have our problems, weaknesses and errors. Yes we have at times been harsh, unfriendly and inaccurate. I have certainly been one of those to have given poor critique, commentary and I don't know maybe even personal comments. I have certainly had my disputes. And i have certainly encountered your irritation and impatience with that. It happens. .-)

I like the people here as far as I know them from across the other side of the world or English channel or wherever. I have been communicating with them for quite a few years and still don't know any of them as real people. Nothing they say or do could possibly hurt of really offend me personally. I might not want to post here anymore if certain things were to be said but well in the end it is a poetry site and attempts at personal insults from a stranger don't really bother me much.  Which is not to say, it should not bother others. Therefore it is indeed about the poetry and I am sure your poem did not get the respect or reasoned critique that you wanted.

I am not really interested in discussions about leaving or not leaving, recommending or not recommending and  all that stuff. Either you do or you don't and you are very free to choose. However, I am interested you stay and that we can, you me and the others seek and find common interest and common ground around the topic of poetry. I appreciate that you are still commenting on this thread - it shows continued motivation and interest and perserverence - so would like to ask you in simple terms what you would like: How do you see the skill of critiquing? What kind of critique would you like, and would like to give? Occasionally you have been positive about other people's poems and have said things like 'That's one of the better poems I have seen on this site.' Is such comment alos constructive and does it matter if the poems are good or not?

From this thread I have for the first time begun to get a feeling for what you mean by editorialising as opposed to critiquing. I seem to be slow on the uptake or at times not really liked the way you handled explaining things. You may not realise it but you are quite abrasive at times. Maybe I am sensitive, who knows or cares. But I found that interesting. I would find it more interesting if editorializing did not seem to rub you up the wrong way but was something we need to understand better and work on.

Is it not true though that many of us post here, whether in poems or comments, or on other sites ( and I have been on other sites where you post) because we are trying to learn, because we don't know how to write great poems or comments. I sometimes detect impatience among the people in this world with things that are not to their liking or standards.

Finally, Covid is truly appalling. Many other things are truly appalling. One set of appalling cannot cancel out the other set of appalling and there can not be a competition between them. We all can write about anything and be moved even if not directly touched by it and that would  not diminish the poem. As far as I am poetry like all writing is fiction. As far as I am concerned, Even biographies are fictional - they are art as in artice, something created. There artifice is encapsulated in Magritte's 'This is not a pipe.' The poem is not the experience and not the author, the poem is an attempt to render the feelings, thoughts and experience shareable.

Hopefully, you continue to strive for the quality that matters to you and realise actually others in their own way are trying for the same thing.

[Tim J Brennan]

Dave,

one thing stands out in your response: It is indeed about the poetry

You ask how do I see a critique of a poem?  These are the "critiques" of the first three people who responded to the poem:

1)  COVID is bad but not that bad

2) I don't have the religious background to respond

3) It is indeed interesting how minds turn to religion to try and make sense of the blindingly obvious.

I'm sorry, but unless folks expand out of their own ego driven worlds a little bit, it ain't going to get any better here.

I see this thread drifting down the page, not being bumped by post. Go back and really READ my NOTE ON page two of this thread. Ignoring it and hoping it goes away won't help this site get any new posters.

I do appreciate you taking the time to respond. I appreciate Mark taking the time to respond. I appreciate Tom's response. I appreciate the PM I got in my mailbox and that person responding. 

Have a good day. Stay healthy.

**addendum: okay, the thread did bump to the top this time. It didn't the last few posts. Thanks to management for this.

2nd addendum: US COVID deaths now stand at 405, 551. This count is approaching the current population of Minneapolis.     

[Tim J Brennan]

1/19/21

US deaths COVID: 408, 762

World deaths COVID: 2, 055, 743

[Tim J Brennan]

1/19/21

US deaths COVID: 408, 762

World deaths COVID: 2, 055, 743

Newest figures released 1/27/21

US Deaths: 438, 246

Cites w/comparable populations: Virginia Beach

[Tim J Brennan]

Newest figures released:

Feb. 6, 2021 = 473, 528

Cities w/comparable population: Miami FL