There are women who seem defined
by children and a cluster of tasks
swirling about them like debris.
They feed and clothe, content to bask
in all the needs they foresee,
the selves they leave behind.
Some weigh them with sneers,
assuming they readily gave in
to being no more than this,
but they had passions, beaten thin
as a prisoner’s dish
by a thousand frustrations and fears.
Ill with ambition, they relinquished former loves
and reasoned, one day, that being a mother is enough.
Is there a need to broaden this out to "parents", not "women"/"mother", since this can be applied to plenty of fathers, too, or is keeping it more specific better?
Also, is it clear enoug that "some" relates to some people, not to women/mothers? And that the "they" which follows refers back to women/mothers?
Thanks.
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Pieta
Re: Pieta
You pose some interesting questions:
"parents" would work as well but then you'd have to retitle it. I think under its present title there is an underlying message that the women of whom you speak are fulfilling a traditional role. As the theme develops the implication is that those women take refuge in that role.
I read the "some" as some people. One point might need clarification:
I wonder if a reference might be made in some way to those who sneer as the modern parents. I can't think of any suggestion that doesn't then denigrate them.
I suppose some readers might take issue with women being singled out as martyring themselves for kicks but you can tell them to call me. The pressures described in the last 5 lines still exist. Fathers have their own burdens to bear as well but I think that's another poem.
P.S. I studied for a fine arts degree with a concentration in sculpture, THEE PIETA is the only work that made me cry during my trip through Italy. Not the theme so much as the tenderness of those forms--OMG. Bernini was good too.
"parents" would work as well but then you'd have to retitle it. I think under its present title there is an underlying message that the women of whom you speak are fulfilling a traditional role. As the theme develops the implication is that those women take refuge in that role.
I read the "some" as some people. One point might need clarification:
Some weigh them with sneers,
assuming they readily gave in
to being no more than this,
I wonder if a reference might be made in some way to those who sneer as the modern parents. I can't think of any suggestion that doesn't then denigrate them.
I suppose some readers might take issue with women being singled out as martyring themselves for kicks but you can tell them to call me. The pressures described in the last 5 lines still exist. Fathers have their own burdens to bear as well but I think that's another poem.
P.S. I studied for a fine arts degree with a concentration in sculpture, THEE PIETA is the only work that made me cry during my trip through Italy. Not the theme so much as the tenderness of those forms--OMG. Bernini was good too.
Re: Pieta
A worthy topic Trevor with some nice lines, but it feels off...like you're trying too hard. I think a lighter touch would be better, and more showing than telling. Instead of saying 'a thousand frustrations' give a few real examples...show us.
We know the neighbourhood; your job is to invite us into one of the houses.
Thanks for sharing.
We know the neighbourhood; your job is to invite us into one of the houses.
Thanks for sharing.
Re: Pieta
Hey Trevor
I am not so sure about this one. There are word combinations that don't quite work out in my mind. Firstly, normally I would assume that the women would be defined by motherhood not by the children - I am not quite sure how that would work.
As you asked and mentioned, the limitation to motherhood could be seen as restrictive and old-fashioned these days, especially as it is written by a man but that is a political discussion more than a poetry one, perhaps.
Secondly, I am trying to see a cluster swirling since cluster suggests compactness and swirling and debris suggest something rather loose. You could easily drop the word cluster and lose nothing significant, IMO.
The same problem arises with the word bask: I can't imagine how a person can 'bask' - suggesting relaxation, slow movement, warmth - in needs and selves left behind, especially given the harshness of tasks and debris before.
Some weight them with sneers can be understood but does not lend itself to a smooth transition and the word weigh seems awkward to me since it has an ambivilance between to make heavy and to find the weight of when I believe it should provide a clear image.
The beaten thin as a prisoner's dish is a great image, I just don't believe it in this context. It could indeed be seen as the rather dramatic moan of the privileged middle classes. There are not many poorer working class people I know who have suffered this kind of stress in parenthood.
It is an interesting subject but I would suggest a more measured less dramatic/melodramatic take on it.
It is of course a question of personal taste not of poetic skill as such.
Dave
I am not so sure about this one. There are word combinations that don't quite work out in my mind. Firstly, normally I would assume that the women would be defined by motherhood not by the children - I am not quite sure how that would work.
As you asked and mentioned, the limitation to motherhood could be seen as restrictive and old-fashioned these days, especially as it is written by a man but that is a political discussion more than a poetry one, perhaps.
Secondly, I am trying to see a cluster swirling since cluster suggests compactness and swirling and debris suggest something rather loose. You could easily drop the word cluster and lose nothing significant, IMO.
The same problem arises with the word bask: I can't imagine how a person can 'bask' - suggesting relaxation, slow movement, warmth - in needs and selves left behind, especially given the harshness of tasks and debris before.
Some weight them with sneers can be understood but does not lend itself to a smooth transition and the word weigh seems awkward to me since it has an ambivilance between to make heavy and to find the weight of when I believe it should provide a clear image.
The beaten thin as a prisoner's dish is a great image, I just don't believe it in this context. It could indeed be seen as the rather dramatic moan of the privileged middle classes. There are not many poorer working class people I know who have suffered this kind of stress in parenthood.
It is an interesting subject but I would suggest a more measured less dramatic/melodramatic take on it.
It is of course a question of personal taste not of poetic skill as such.
Dave
Re: Pieta
Now that I have also checked the Pieta and its meaning and see it refers to Mary holding the dead body of Jesus, i am not sure how that fits with the narrative of the poem. It would suggest a mother whose child or children has/have died and therefore the ultimate loss is that the mother's life went into the children but all in vain. A different narrative unless I am missing something.
Dave
Dave
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Re: Pieta
Hello Trev
This poem reminds me of the day long ago when I was admonishing my daughter for not helping with the cooking more and she turned to me and said, "Mom, you know you and I are different. I only cook because I have to but you do it because you like it."
Somebody has to carry out the tasks involved in raising children. If getting someone else to do it would cost me more than I could earn in the work world myself, then I have to do it. And if I do it well, someone might even think I like doing it and write a poem about me.
Jackie
This poem reminds me of the day long ago when I was admonishing my daughter for not helping with the cooking more and she turned to me and said, "Mom, you know you and I are different. I only cook because I have to but you do it because you like it."
Somebody has to carry out the tasks involved in raising children. If getting someone else to do it would cost me more than I could earn in the work world myself, then I have to do it. And if I do it well, someone might even think I like doing it and write a poem about me.
Jackie
Re: Pieta
Hi Trev,
The title definitely caught my attention. The iconic parameters of gender set in stone. You seem to have some rhyme plays and 14 lines!
The title definitely caught my attention. The iconic parameters of gender set in stone. You seem to have some rhyme plays and 14 lines!
There are women who seem defined.............seem...waters down the assertion?
by children and a cluster of tasks
swirling about them like debris..................debris/foresee is a nice rhyme
They feed and clothe, content to bask
in all the needs they foresee,
the selves they leave behind.
Some weigh them with sneers,.....who are the some?
assuming they readily gave in
to being no more than this,
but they had passions, beaten thin
as a prisoner’s dish.........................................nice simile
by a thousand frustrations and fears.......................cliche phrase?
Ill with ambition, they relinquished former loves
and reasoned, one day, that being a mother is enough.
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Re: Pieta
Thanks for the feedback, everyone. It's very helpful. I'm not sure if I'll ultimately put much more effort into this one, as it's taken a fair few drafts to get to this stage, and my main preoccupations with it have been those mentioned in Colm's observations. I'll apply the changes based on yere feedback and see what happens.
Thanks again,
Trev
Thanks again,
Trev