The Tangled Branch Discussion Forums

When I Was

little, perhaps half the length of my bed
I lay with my head
away from the window that might let in
some unnamed threat
and prayed to lord Jesus to save me
please please save me
eyes closed, hand extended
asked for a sign I'd been heard
imagined a feathery pressure
a slight warmth in my palm
full grown standing in sunshine
kneedeep in lake water
wind fluttering tree leaves
it came to me what I'd prayed for
prayed to lord Jesus for
salvation from his almighty father
god in a rage.

A fine musing, Indar.  Thoroughly enjoyed the imagery as well, picturing the small child huddled in the 'safer' end of her bed, reaching out for something she desperately wanted to be there.

And the adult version, still clearly spiritual in the presence of nature, ticking off one more thing on what was probably a long list of half answered questions.

Makes perfect sense.  The old testament God was a merciless bastard.

Mind you, Jesus had his moments.  Whipping the money-lenders from the temple.  I've always liked that image, the young rebel doing what he felt was right.

Gyppo

What delicious irony so gently presented amidst a wealth of imagery.  I can see N in her bed at night, terrified by what she has been taught.  By adults. People who are entrusted with her care.  People who should know better.  But I guess that was the intention then. Scare the shit out of her in order to control her.  I had it better. My parents were intent on raising me in the Christian tradition, but it didn't feel the same.  I later figured out that they were devote believers in the Christian virtues-- hard work, honesty, community, fair dealing, humility, and charity. But they had no real belief in White Beard Guy. 

Billy Collins poems often begin with descriptions of the the mundane, the routine, and then blossom into majestic poetic moments. This poem follows that pattern.  
You walk the reader into the heart of the Christian conundrum.  

It took me several reads to understand that line 8 does not run on (to line 9)--like some of the other lines do.  I kept getting hung up on the grammar until that dawned on me.  It no doubt should have dawned on me sooner.  Once I got it, I got it.  That was the only impediment to a smooth read for me.  Not saying it should be changed, just sharing my reading experience.   

I very much like the way the poem presents as one sentence-- one complete thought.  Stanza breaks and punctuation could erode that effect and I generally would not like to see that.

Good writing, Linda.

T

Excellent Linda

Simple clear imagery and language. The final line is powerful and all the more so for the fact that you built to it without tipping the reader off that you were building towards it. It did not feel at all manipulative just surprising. I have never understood human need for wrathful gods - good gods yes but one that punishes makes little sense

I have never understood human need for wrathful gods - good gods yes but one that punishes makes little sense

A mean and vengeful God has traditionally been a prime weapon of government for social control of its citizenry.  The church-state deal has historically been the church legitimizing the authority of government in exchange for government's protection of the church and its religious monopoly.   Happy God is just the carrot.  I am sorry, did that sound irreligious?

T

Being irreligious shouldn't automatically be seen as  being an enemy of religion.  Just that you don't want to live your life by that particular narrow set of rules.  There may be another path which suits, rather than full on atheism.

Dad was brought up as a Baptist, but he never 'banged on' about it.  When he swam under burning oil to safety and eventual rescue, after his ship was torpedoed he was prepared to believe that 'maybe someone or something was watching over him', but it was his muscle, lungpower, and bloody-mindedness which saw him clear when others died.

We had a bible in the caravan, but he never presented it as rulebook.  "But there's some good stories in there, Son.  And lots of stuff about people making good and bad choices.  But you should make up your own mind about God.  I'm not telling you what you have to believe."

He had a lot of time  for a man called Barney at his chapel where he was a kid.  "He was rough as arseholes, and some of the more 'churchy' ones hated his language and his opinions.  But he ran the boys club with a relaxed authority and always did the right thing.  He always had a kind word or a bollocking when it was needed."

As a contrast when his mum joined one of the more extreme Pentecostal chapels he absolutely despised their pastor, who he saw a freeloading hypocritical bastard.  Rightly so when some of the stories began to emerge. 

I saw Dad being polite to him, so as not to upset his mum, but as a perceptive kid I could hear the contempt behind Dad's measured words.

But the man with all the booming bonhomie and platitudes never seemed to notice.  They never do.

Gyppo


 

Dear Tracy, Dave and Gyppo,

You see? Religion can be a perfectly safe subject for discussion among thoughtful people like the three of you. Thank you so much for all the feedback. Here is a little saying I picked up during theological studies: 

When we die and get to heaven, we'll find all the angels laughing at our theologies.

I like that

Gyppo

indar wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 18, 2023 3:15 pm

When we die and get to heaven, we'll find all the angels laughing at our theologies.

I m fairly reliably informed that something like this is in fact the case. 

Enjoyed the poem, enjoyed the discussion. I liked the point Ty made about religion being better applied as a moral and behaviour code than as, er, a metaphysical philosophy. The former is better suited to large groups in an almost secular way, while the latter is intensely individualistic - if God is based on Faith, and Faith is based on Belief and Belief is personally intrinsic - as it must be - then God exists only as a function of each individual and it then follows there is no common God as expiated in mass religions except as  a convenient and utilitarian concept for mass control. The more one exercises the faculty known as conscience, the greater the presence of the inner, individual God. And further, as degrees of conscience vary between individuals, the point of such internal God-ism is reinforced.